Oh dear. Oh dear.

On what is already a dreadful day for Labour, with PM Gordon Brown calling a difficult voter “bigoted”, things got little better for The People's Party when Andy Burnham seriously misled the BBC2 Daily Politics health hustings.

You can find very roughly transcribed notes of the event (which was fairly good, overall) below.

The misleading arose in the discussion about social care. Burnham said that the Royal Commission report on long-term care in 1999 “couldn’t agree on a way forward”.

That is a complete untruth, as you can see here.

The two main recommendations from ‘With Respect To Old Age’ (the report of the Royal Commission on Long Term Care, chaired by Sir Stewart Sutherland), were very clear:
- The costs of long-term care should be split between living costs, housing costs and personal care. Personal care should be available after assessment, according to need and paid for from general taxation: the rest should be subject to a co-payment according to means.
- The Government should establish a National Care Commission to monitor trends, including demography and spending, ensure transparency and accountability in the system, represent the interests of consumers, and set national benchmarks, now and in the future.

Unambiguous. Not a hint of a sign of inability to agree.

There was an inability to agree – but it was in the Government’s response document, slipped out as an appendix to 2000’s The NHS Plan.

This is quite a thing for Mr Burnham to mis-remember. You will probably know that he was an ex-researcher for the NHS Confederation in 1997 and a member of the health select committee 2001-3.

You can make a thing worse by not telling the truth about it. Perhaps it was just a mistake. Perhaps he has been misinformed.

But it is quite wrong.

UNCORRECTED NOTES, BBC 2 DAILY POLITICS HEALTH HUSTINGS 27.4.10
Andrew Neil and Branwen Jeffreys host this session. Burnham looks smiley-nervous; Lansley annoyed; Lamb teriffically happy.

45-second pitches on why yopur policy is best
Burnham – this is the first election in living memory health not top issue, illustrating health largely cracked under Labour. 1997 not uncommon to wait 2 yrs heart bypass. Sometimes it falls short, but Labour has made NHS move from poor to good; next is to great and preventative and more personal.

Lansley- NHS is Conservatives’ no. 1 priority – will back and ensure increased real-terms funding, so sick do not to pay for Labour’s debt crisis. Bad treatment for cancer, Mid-Stafford, must change. decisions by doctor and nurses you trust, that is why we can be best in world.

Neil: Question about donation to private office from wife of chair of Care UK.
Lansley: Conservative Central Office took it. Trades Unions buy influence with Labour, private firm Alpha Healthcare with Lib Dems. Nobody buys influence with me.

Lamb – we all know next years will be really tough for NHS, money must go further. We’ll cut waste and overblown central bureaucracy. If you need an operation, Lib Dems guarantee you’ll get it or be funded to go private. Now time to implement new funding of care for elderly people, starting point of right to break for 1 million carers who work longest hours

Neil: ‘front line services’ meaningless phrase

Burnham: means PCT budgets. 5% this year, real terms next 2 financial years. Funding opposed by Lansley in 2002.

Neil: are receptionists front-line staff?

Burnham: front line means clinical services.

Lamb: in last year, employed 5000 more mangers.

Lansley: administrators necessary in NHS, but expect smaller rise than nurses, actually 2/3 rise.

Burnham: 2/3 more managers (about 20,000 more), but NHS twice as big as in 1997.

Jeffreys: junior doctor training posts are being cut

Burnham: increased size of doctors in last 10 years, going to take 30% out of management in next few years.

Jeffreys: no promises to protect NHS funding. Will there be fewer doctors and nurses if you're in government?

Lamb: no, follow govt spending plans to next April. Seek significant efficiency savings to reinvest in patient care – see NHS as priority and want to invest in patient care

Jeffreys: how do £20 bn savings?

Lamb: no spending commitments – Burnham has done £2 bn new commitments. £5 bn – NHS III 3.6 bn from acute efficiency

Lansley: we've made it very clear to NHS time and again need efficiency savings. demand rising 3% a year, even without commitment, need savings from existing resources. David Nicholson asking NHS to think in those terms. Neither Norman nor Andy promising.

Neil: harsh truth ring0fencing about burnishing Tory image and politics

Lansley: it’s a commitment, back to Cameron’s first party conference in three letters NHS.

Burnham: Andrew (L), NHS depends on other public services like social care to function – you see it in isolation

Lansley: we have committed to whole NHS budget, not all in PCTs. Not proposing to cut childrens’ services, including training and public health

Lamb: no ring-fencing for social care, preventative. IFS says if ring-fence health, more savage cuts for all rest. all economists recognise this.

Lansley: would you cut NHS budget?

Lamb: savings through capping pay go to pay off budget.

Neil: 5,000 new managers – front line or back-office?

Burnham: some clinicians

Neil: your broadcast implies people who need fast treatment will not get it

Burnham: Lansley remove 2-week guarantee, if removed, waiting times in NHS will increase. Absolutely legitimate to say if standards taken off, people will get crucial care more slowly. Lansley says waiting time not matter

Lansley: I did not

Burnham: you did

Lansley: No

B: you said speed not only thing that matters

Lansley: quality too. 2 week wait may not have diagnostic tests. Our objective is cancer survival rates as good as best in Europe, need access to new drugs

Jeffreys: you want better cancer survival, but would get rid of 2-week guarantee?

Lansley: will scrap targets without clinical justification

Burnham: happy for postcode variation on cancer

Neil: if Conservatives win, and diagnose

Jeffreys: if suspected cancer, in 2 weeks?

Lansley: yes

Neil: you told me in another programme that =you would not protect 2 weeks

Lamb: 2 week wait, had specialist in 2 weeks, thought cancerous, respect early access we promise to early, if not on time, private. real worry is if no entitlement or target, times could slip fast under pressure. Left office in 97, people waited 2-3 years in Norfolk for joint replacement

Lansley: only 45% of patients with cancer go through 2-week pathway

Burnham: you’re saying on your own

Neil: on hospital closures, you promised bare-knuckle fight for DGHs, so if you get in, the extant set-up will remain?

Lansley: we have no proposals to close hospitals, unlike Labour proposal to take services away from DGHs, we will stop forced closure of A&Es. Labour closed Burnley A&E, Solihull maternity services just closed. When Heart Of England merged with Solihull, understood DGH would sustain services.

Neil: would and could DGHs close?

Lansley: yes, bit not on basis of ideological commitments

Jeffreys: Norman, your party has campaigned against unannounced closures

Lamb: SW London, Kingston etc, see draft document, and it is about service closure. Legitimate to tell people about this before election. Think we've tested to destruction idea that unaccountable bodies should decide closures, which is why we'd introduce locally elected bodies of health boards.

Burnham: Andrew Lansley makes great play of saying they back doctors, but in marginals, promise to reverse clinician-supported closure. Health Secretary has a moral duty to back clinicians who genuinely see a valid case for closures. He has it both ways

Jeffreys: in your own party, Ivan Lewis, Hazel Blears, David Lammy campaigned against closures

Burnham: change led locally, constituency MPs have right to comment. Also show we prepared to take difficult decisions in Labour back yard locally.

Lamb: unaccountable bodies!

Neil: on the way Labour has run the NHS, Francis Report into Mid-Staffs found your target focus produced “unimaginable suffering among patients”

Burnham: I commissioned Francis Report, which did not say that, Mid-Staffs problems were about too low staffing, not able to provide the standard of care

Nail: yes / no / maybe to these questions:
Scot-Wales-style free prescriptions?

Burnham: Yes

Relaxing licensing laws terrible mistake?
Burnham: no

Minimum alcohol pricing?
B: end below-cost pricing
Lansley: end below cost
Lamb: minimum pricing

Free hospital parking?
Burn: have said we will for inpatients
Lansley: no
Lamb: another uncosted promise

Dentistry access
B: people can get NHS access, 9/10 survey found people could access NHS dentistry. still worried about 1/10 can’t, more to do

Lansley: Consumers Association said many can’t, we are only party promising reform, neither Lab nor Lib have dentistry in manifesto

Burnham: Andrew (L), your manifesto talks about fines for missing dental appointments – thin end of wedge?

Neil: out of hours GP care – doubled spending since 97, many areas so little care, Wigan 1 doctor for 300,000 people at night?

Burnham: NHS Direct, Walk-In Centres, good OOH service. Took up situation OOH falling over when GPs had to do at night, BMA say don’t want that back

Jeffreys: GPs like new contract with less responsibility?

Lansley: Conversations with GPC of BMA – want to be more involved. GPs should have collective responsibility for OOH

Neil: on social care, Tony Blair said in 1997 Labour Conference don’t want pensioners have to sell home for care. 13 yrs, not dome, proud?

Burnham: TB set up Royal Commission which couldn’t agree about way forward,. So important need broad consensus

Jeffreys: respite care, short break, how stop?

Lamb: start to give them a break

Neil: £8,000 payment, some cost £2,000 a week, won’t go far

Lansley: average of insured is 1 in 5 claim.

Lamb: average take-up of voluntary insurance schemes to do this globally is 1 in 10

Burnham: cost of domiciliary care real one. This leaves 9 in 10 unable to protect home. Care of older people only thing not provided on population0wdie risk-wide basis

Neil: why not use big house to pay for costs

Lansley looking at using assets through insurance system, people without assets would get free care. Issue for domiciliary care. Looking to go beyond £8,000

Jeffreys: around 175,000 young carers: one thing better?

Lamb: extend winter fuel payment to chronically disabled, reform care system

Lansley: so many lack assessment of their needs

Burnham: hidden issue too long, lose life chances, NCS support better

Neil: public health, why our taxes fund people whose persistently unhealthy

Burnham: I don’t want moral judgments at door of NGS, maker all kind choices, not want judgment. I as SoS promoted physical activity for core business. Swimming free, childhood obesity levelled off in recent months. Scoff at levelled off, but major to break trend

Jeffreys: Norman Lamb, would your party tax fatty foods?

Lamb: again, think could end up disadvantaging poorer communities, would min price alcohol, incentives for health board engage with employers on health and wellbeing. transform lives and reduce costs to NHS

extend smoking ban?

Lansley: all voted for smoking ban.

why now illegal to smoke in restaurant but legal in car with kids?

Lansley: definition of public and private space. Can do banning and taxing, and support tax on fags. Need to change behaviour and impact on demand for fatty foods, cigs and booze. Attitude to behaviour change have to be community based.

Lamb: my priority tackling smuggled tobacco, very cheap in disadvantaged if getting in pub

Neil: contraband fags are everywhere due to tax rises upping price

Burnham: stop recruiting flow of new smokers, ban tobacco vending machines, plain packaging on packets

Lamb: have massive challenges, either slash-and-burn services (evidence) or redesign to make money go further and protect services. Ambition and disciplined can improve health and service

Lansley: priority is NHS, even in tough times, back with funding commitment, must be used much better you need to join us in being more engaged, better informed with drs and nurses, empowering with doctors

Burnham: NHS faces biggest challenge in next three years. Labour will protect improvement. removing targets and guarantees, a la Tories, is recipe for disaster. Which party do you trust with NHS in a difficult time? Labour created and saved NHS, and will do in next period.